Comments on: PostgreSQL Conference East 2008 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/ Stay curious! Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:20:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Xaprb http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14399 Xaprb Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:46:44 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14399 Joshua, I think we're on the same page for sure. I look forward to seeing you at the MySQL conference too. Joshua, I think we’re on the same page for sure. I look forward to seeing you at the MySQL conference too.

]]> By: LewisC http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14398 LewisC Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:44:52 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14398 Hey Baron, The release with core XML support, specifically an XML data type and SQL/XML functions, is 8.3 (the latest release). Prior to 8.3, there was some add on XML support but it was stored in regular text fields and was not SQL/XML compliant. I am glad I got to meet you. It was the first time I got to meet many of the people there and that was fun too. LewisC Hey Baron,

The release with core XML support, specifically an XML data type and SQL/XML functions, is 8.3 (the latest release). Prior to 8.3, there was some add on XML support but it was stored in regular text fields and was not SQL/XML compliant.

I am glad I got to meet you. It was the first time I got to meet many of the people there and that was fun too.

LewisC

]]> By: Joshua Drake http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14396 Joshua Drake Wed, 02 Apr 2008 23:33:53 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14396 I would also mentioned that I did state that MySQL had its place. My main point is that PostgreSQL is technically superior. The code quality is better, and all in all I feel we are a better situated project to take on the needs of the Enterprise. You can indeed take the "MySQL has the market" position but then again, so does Microsoft. It isn't a very noble position to take unless your goal is indeed only market share. That isn't the goal of PostgreSQL (although it is one of them). The goal is to deliver a superior database. The world's most advanced Open Source database in fact. Lastly, Xaprb I invite you to review the mission on http://www.postgresql.us and the Why on http://www.postgresqlconference.org , you will see that we are in fact trying to attack the education market. Anyway, welcome to our community. I would be happy to answer any and all questions you have about us. I would also mentioned that I did state that MySQL had its place. My main point is that PostgreSQL is technically superior. The code quality is better, and all in all I feel we are a better situated project to take on the needs of the Enterprise.

You can indeed take the “MySQL has the market” position but then again, so does Microsoft. It isn’t a very noble position to take unless your goal is indeed only market share.

That isn’t the goal of PostgreSQL (although it is one of them). The goal is to deliver a superior database. The world’s most advanced Open Source database in fact.

Lastly, Xaprb I invite you to review the mission on http://www.postgresql.us and the Why on http://www.postgresqlconference.org , you will see that we are in fact trying to attack the education market.

Anyway, welcome to our community. I would be happy to answer any and all questions you have about us.

]]> By: Andrew Dunstan's Postgres Blog http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14383 Andrew Dunstan's Postgres Blog Tue, 01 Apr 2008 23:06:43 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14383 <strong>PG Conference East...</strong> The entire staff of Dunslane Consulting, LLC (i.e. my wife Melanie and I) drove up to College Park, Md last Thursday. We spend Friday viewing the portrait of Stephen Colbert in the restroom of the National Portrait Gallery and wandering among the beau... PG Conference East…

The entire staff of Dunslane Consulting, LLC (i.e. my wife Melanie and I) drove up to College Park, Md last Thursday. We spend Friday viewing the portrait of Stephen Colbert in the restroom of the National Portrait Gallery and wandering among the beau…

]]> By: Arjen Lentz http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14382 Arjen Lentz Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:18:12 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14382 No fence, no offence... No fence, no offence…

]]> By: Andrew Dunstan http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14381 Andrew Dunstan Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:09:00 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14381 There are blowhards in both the MySQL and PostgreSQL communities. Try not to take too much notice of them. (We PostgreSQL people are always being told that our product is vastly slower, despite some benchmarks to the contrary.) However, we have no problem at all in copying or adapting features that are in MySQL if they seem useful, even if we sometimes do it in our own way (e.g. our recent implementation of enum types is not like MySQL's, but is much more appropriate for use in PostgreSQL's very rich type system.) I've done some copying of features, myself - for example DROP ... IF EXISTS. Of course, that was a bit harder for us than for you since PostgreSQL has over 20 DROP commands :-) I'm very glad Baron came to our conference, and I hope we see more MySQL people at our increasing number of conferences. I will be looking to see what MySQL conferences are around and possibly attending some myself. Maybe we should start a regular series of sessions on "The view from the other side of the fence". There are blowhards in both the MySQL and PostgreSQL communities. Try not to take too much notice of them. (We PostgreSQL people are always being told that our product is vastly slower, despite some benchmarks to the contrary.) However, we have no problem at all in copying or adapting features that are in MySQL if they seem useful, even if we sometimes do it in our own way (e.g. our recent implementation of enum types is not like MySQL’s, but is much more appropriate for use in PostgreSQL’s very rich type system.)

I’ve done some copying of features, myself - for example DROP … IF EXISTS. Of course, that was a bit harder for us than for you since PostgreSQL has over 20 DROP commands :-)

I’m very glad Baron came to our conference, and I hope we see more MySQL people at our increasing number of conferences. I will be looking to see what MySQL conferences are around and possibly attending some myself. Maybe we should start a regular series of sessions on “The view from the other side of the fence”.

]]> By: Xaprb http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14380 Xaprb Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:53:11 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14380 I won't be at PGCon, but I do want to keep learning and growing. My new job is MySQL-focused though, so I have to be sure I'm putting my effort into earning my salary :) I won’t be at PGCon, but I do want to keep learning and growing. My new job is MySQL-focused though, so I have to be sure I’m putting my effort into earning my salary :)

]]> By: Dane http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14379 Dane Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:23:41 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14379 Hi Baron, Thanks for the conference recap. Does this mean you're turning more of your attention toward Postgres? Any chance I'll see you at PGCon in Ottawa? Hi Baron, Thanks for the conference recap. Does this mean you’re turning more of your attention toward Postgres? Any chance I’ll see you at PGCon in Ottawa?

]]> By: Xaprb http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14378 Xaprb Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:29:12 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14378 Arjen: I don't want to leave the impression that everyone was trying to tell me I was an idiot for using MySQL etc. I think Josh's comment was along the lines of "welcome. Here's my 15-second elevator speech. Now we can get on to matters of substance." I heard it in very much a "this is my opinion, take what you like and leave the rest" spirit. It was a welcoming and open crowd, and at various points in the day we also talked about MySQL's weaknesses, both culturally and technically. Arjen: I don’t want to leave the impression that everyone was trying to tell me I was an idiot for using MySQL etc. I think Josh’s comment was along the lines of “welcome. Here’s my 15-second elevator speech. Now we can get on to matters of substance.” I heard it in very much a “this is my opinion, take what you like and leave the rest” spirit. It was a welcoming and open crowd, and at various points in the day we also talked about MySQL’s weaknesses, both culturally and technically.

]]> By: Arjen Lentz http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14377 Arjen Lentz Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:20:23 +0000 http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2008/04/01/postgresql-conference-east-2008/#comment-14377 Note beforehand: Open Query also does PostgreSQL training and consulting, by Jonathon Coombes. That statement of "superior, hands down" is worrying. But I've heard it before. While we can all agree that there are many things missing or flawed in and around MySQL, the measure of superiority comes from a very arbitrary position, and one that is not reflected by the actual situation in the market. Whether or not PostgreSQL is superior is completely and utterly moot. Declaring all those who choose to use MySQL for anything "serious" idiots, misinformed, or just ignorant about the PostgreSQL walhalla (and sorry, this would be a nasty debating trick if it weren't for the fact that I have actually heard all these arguments from people) is just silly. It also distracts this otherwise very smart group of people from the real issues that they need to face for getting broader adoption of PostgreSQL. As long as this attitude persists, no good will come of it. Unfortunately, it runs with some of the main faces. I've seen Bruce speak, live. Good speaker, knowledgable guy, if only he stuck to his main topic (which is not about being superior to anything). Indeed, a 1-2TB data warehouse is not "big" as such, and requiring a complete dump/reload for an upgrade is unacceptable for such a deployment. There are other such issues in PostgreSQL. They are, just like with MySQL, slowly being resolved. Which is good. In a nutshell, there's absolutely no reason or even foundation for that air of superiority. Whomever still has it, should get over it real quickly. It'll be better for everyone. Mind you, the attitude probably helps MySQL, so if the animosity is aimed at MySQL, it's actually counter productive. People like Josh Berkus have understood this for a long time. I really thought the gang had become more moderate. By your account, I was mistaken. That's a great pity. For PostgreSQL's sake, I hope it changes soon. Note beforehand: Open Query also does PostgreSQL training and consulting, by Jonathon Coombes.

That statement of “superior, hands down” is worrying. But I’ve heard it before.
While we can all agree that there are many things missing or flawed in and around MySQL, the measure of superiority comes from a very arbitrary position, and one that is not reflected by the actual situation in the market.
Whether or not PostgreSQL is superior is completely and utterly moot. Declaring all those who choose to use MySQL for anything “serious” idiots, misinformed, or just ignorant about the PostgreSQL walhalla (and sorry, this would be a nasty debating trick if it weren’t for the fact that I have actually heard all these arguments from people) is just silly.
It also distracts this otherwise very smart group of people from the real issues that they need to face for getting broader adoption of PostgreSQL.
As long as this attitude persists, no good will come of it. Unfortunately, it runs with some of the main faces. I’ve seen Bruce speak, live. Good speaker, knowledgable guy, if only he stuck to his main topic (which is not about being superior to anything).

Indeed, a 1-2TB data warehouse is not “big” as such, and requiring a complete dump/reload for an upgrade is unacceptable for such a deployment. There are other such issues in PostgreSQL. They are, just like with MySQL, slowly being resolved. Which is good.

In a nutshell, there’s absolutely no reason or even foundation for that air of superiority. Whomever still has it, should get over it real quickly. It’ll be better for everyone. Mind you, the attitude probably helps MySQL, so if the animosity is aimed at MySQL, it’s actually counter productive.
People like Josh Berkus have understood this for a long time.

I really thought the gang had become more moderate. By your account, I was mistaken. That’s a great pity. For PostgreSQL’s sake, I hope it changes soon.

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